Have courage to create fossil fuel phaseout roadmap at Cop30, Brazilian minister urges

Marina Silva says contentious plan would be ‘ethical answer’ to climate crisis but does not commit Brazil to it

Brazil’s environment minister, Marina Silva, has urged all countries to have the courage to address the need for a fossil fuel phaseout, calling the drawing up of a roadmap for it an “ethical” response to the climate crisis.

She emphasised, however, that the process would be voluntary for those governments that wished to participate, and “self-determined”.

The issue is one of the most controversial at the Cop30 summit in Brazil, with countries fighting over whether and how such a roadmap can be discussed. As host, Brazil is carefully neutral about what can be on the formal agenda.

Silva spoke approvingly of the potential for a roadmap, without explicitly committing Brazil to it. She said: “When we have a terrain or environment that is quite grim, it is good that we have a map. But the map does not force us to travel, or to climb.”

In an exclusive interview with the Guardian, she added: “The map is an answer to our scientific knowledge [of the climate crisis]. It is an ethical answer.”

Scores of countries meeting in Belém for the UN climate summit, which is entering its second week, want to establish how a global phaseout of fossil fuels could work. They want to build on a historic resolution made two years ago at Cop28 in Dubai to “transition away from fossil fuels”.

That promise had no timetable attached or details on how it could be achieved, and although it was passed unanimously, some countries have since attempted to disavow the pledge. Attempts last year to elaborate on what it would mean in practice were stymied by opposition from petrostates at Cop29 in Azerbaijan, which is heavily reliant on oil and gas exports.

There was no mention of the transition away from fossil fuels in the outcome of Cop29 as a result.

For these reasons, Brazil has been wary of calls by some countries to put the transition on the agenda for Cop30. But Silva has worked hard behind the scenes to ensure the pledge could be discussed at the summit outside the formal agenda.

She won round Brazil’s president, Luis Inácio Lula da Silva, who made public reference three times to the need to “move away from dependence on fossil fuels” at the summit of world leaders that preceded Cop30, and at the opening of the conference.

“This is something that we know at some point had to be put forward, because it is the only way to face the problem from the root,” Marina Silva said. “We recognise that it is not easy, and we cannot sell false hopes. Raising the subject is courageous, and I hope [to see] this courage from all, from producers and consumers.”

Brazil had not initiated the call for a phaseout, she said, because that had been done at Cop28. Instead, it was allowing the discussions to take place in accordance with what some countries wished. “We know these topics are delicate. We will give the opportunity to discuss it,” she said.

There is not enough time at Cop30 to draw up a roadmap, a process Silva said could take several years because many countries faced complex issues around dependence on fossil fuels, or wanted to use the proceeds from selling fossil fuels to finance their development.

“Brazil raises the subject, because Brazil is both a producer and consumer,” she said. “But Brazil is different, because Brazil, if it wants to, need not depend on fossil fuels. We have to understand that there are some that depend on fossil fuels in their economies and don’t have easy solutions, and others where fossil fuels are the basis of their economy.

“To be fair is to be fair to everyone, but the essential, primordial justice is not to be unfair to the planet, because it is our home.”

If the pledge receives enough support, Cop30 could set up a forum in which the process of drawing up a roadmap to the phaseout could begin.

Brazil’s environment minister, Marina Silva, has urged all countries to have the courage to address the need for a fossil fuel phaseout, calling the drawing up of a roadmap for it an “ethical” response to the climate crisis.

She emphasised, however, that the process would be voluntary for those governments that wished to participate, and “self-determined”.

The issue is one of the most controversial at the Cop30 summit in Brazil, with countries fighting over whether and how such a roadmap can be discussed. As host, Brazil is carefully neutral about what can be on the formal agenda.

Silva spoke approvingly of the potential for a roadmap, without explicitly committing Brazil to it. She said: “When we have a terrain or environment that is quite grim, it is good that we have a map. But the map does not force us to travel, or to climb.”

In an exclusive interview with the Guardian, she added: “The map is an answer to our scientific knowledge [of the climate crisis]. It is an ethical answer.”

Scores of countries meeting in Belém for the UN climate summit, which is entering its second week, want to establish how a global phaseout of fossil fuels could work. They want to build on a historic resolution made two years ago at Cop28 in Dubai to “transition away from fossil fuels”.

That promise had no timetable attached or details on how it could be achieved, and although it was passed unanimously, some countries have since attempted to disavow the pledge. Attempts last year to elaborate on what it would mean in practice were stymied by opposition from petrostates at Cop29 in Azerbaijan, which is heavily reliant on oil and gas exports.

There was no mention of the transition away from fossil fuels in the outcome of Cop29 as a result.

For these reasons, Brazil has been wary of calls by some countries to put the transition on the agenda for Cop30. But Silva has worked hard behind the scenes to ensure the pledge could be discussed at the summit outside the formal agenda.

She won round Brazil’s president, Luis Inácio Lula da Silva, who made public reference three times to the need to “move away from dependence on fossil fuels” at the summit of world leaders that preceded Cop30, and at the opening of the conference.

“This is something that we know at some point had to be put forward, because it is the only way to face the problem from the root,” Marina Silva said. “We recognise that it is not easy, and we cannot sell false hopes. Raising the subject is courageous, and I hope [to see] this courage from all, from producers and consumers.”

Brazil had not initiated the call for a phaseout, she said, because that had been done at Cop28. Instead, it was allowing the discussions to take place in accordance with what some countries wished. “We know these topics are delicate. We will give the opportunity to discuss it,” she said.

There is not enough time at Cop30 to draw up a roadmap, a process Silva said could take several years because many countries faced complex issues around dependence on fossil fuels, or wanted to use the proceeds from selling fossil fuels to finance their development.

“Brazil raises the subject, because Brazil is both a producer and consumer,” she said. “But Brazil is different, because Brazil, if it wants to, need not depend on fossil fuels. We have to understand that there are some that depend on fossil fuels in their economies and don’t have easy solutions, and others where fossil fuels are the basis of their economy.

“To be fair is to be fair to everyone, but the essential, primordial justice is not to be unfair to the planet, because it is our home.”

If the pledge receives enough support, Cop30 could set up a forum in which the process of drawing up a roadmap to the phaseout could begin.

 

Cover photo:  Brazil’s environment minister, Marina Silva. She spoke approvingly of the potential for a roadmap, without any firm commitment. Photograph: Mauro Pimentel/AFP/Getty Images